History of Religion(s)

Subject: History of Religion(s) Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:33 pm

I would be interested to participate in a discussion about the History of Religion. I think there much to be learned about the history and how it affects all of us.
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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:47 pm

Well Abe, 14 views to your comment and no replies yet, so I'll bite! It's a pretty big subject; do you want to narrow it down at all or just jump in?
History of religion as it pertains to culture, literature, life in general or specific?
Not that I know much about any of it, but I do find it fascinating...
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Pam Robertson

http://andthebandplayedonmylawn.blogspot.com

Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:54 pm

Well, Abe, it seems that depending on different belief systems changes the history of religion. I have been studying religions for years (am NOT an expert by any means). I believe there is good and bad in all religions. Jesus and Buddha were NOT religious men. They were spiritual men with a message. Many of Christianity's ummmm traditions come from Paganism and yet they more than frown on Paganism. Most people think Paganism has to do with Satan and not what it is really about.

I was raised Pentecostal/Assembly of God/Holy Roller. I do embrace some of their beliefs, but over the years have also embraced beliefs from other systems or denominations.

Like Pam asked, what do you want to talk about?
sunny

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Joined : 16 Jan 2008 Posts : 5 Location : Utah, USA

Ditto, *big* subject and where to start? I despised history the way it was taught when I was in school (back before the earth cooled) but hooked up with the Baha'i Faith in college, and its universality and world-embracing view of other religions has led me to study a lot of comparative religion (and mythology, sometimes hard to separate the two!) and that's where history starts to get very interesting. For instance, we have such a skewed view of Islam in this country (USA). Granted, events by crazy people like 9/11 haven't helped anyway, but most people in the Christian west don't realize there were lights in the streets of the Abbasid Empire when Europe had plunged into the Dark Ages or that that's where the great centers of learning that Europe sent their doctors and nobility to for learning were. In fact, in high school, I learned that it was a *good* thing that Ferdinand and Isabella turned back the Moors (or that earlier, the Battle of Tours stopped the original Muslim incursion).

I've always wanted to do a book about a Jewish man from, say, 11th century England, turned out by his own community and fleeing England in fear of his life who is shipwrecked in the Middle East and finds Jews, Christians, and Muslims living together in relative harmony and that he is accepted for who and what he is.

My studies have greatly influenced my world of Caros and the way my series Adventurers of the Carotian Union played out. If you look, you see references to other faiths and historical incidents from them scattered throughout the work (basically a quest fantasy). Lots of material for writers in religious history and practice, and there's an active thread on Amazon for people looking for series *not* based on Celtic spirituality.

Interested to see where this thread will go.
Karen Anne Webb
www.chaliceoflife.com

Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:57 am

Wow. You're right about it being a big subject and already I see many have studied the various aspects. I see Karen has done much study on the subject as well.

Throughout history, religion has been the cause of wars, and it continues to this day. Most religions believe in one God. How ironic that they pray to this one God to help them kill their enemies while at the same time their enemies are doing the same thing. It is not always fighting against a different religions but also between sects within the same religion. As was with Christians in Ireland between Protestants and Catholics or in Islam between the Sunni's and the Shiite's currently in Iraq.
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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:41 am

I think a bit of background would be helpful as Sue has done. My religious upbringing was almost identical to Sue's. Fundamentalist (Penticostal). We were right and everyone else wrong.
I had been chosen by the church to be sent to bible school to become a preacher. I escaped by joining the USAF. When I got there, I took it upon myself to find out about other religions. Each sunday I would attend a different church service at the chapel's on base, and to my surprise, I found they were basically all the same. That was the beginning of the end for me as a "religious" person. The more I learned about religion the more I questioned it.
My wife took religious studies at Penn State Univ. and studied Christianity, Judaism and Islam. I was on the hearing end of all this of course. When I was in the Middle East, I read the Koran. That was a chore with all the footnotes trying to explain certain scriptures. No, I'm not an expert on any religion but I have a fair knowledge about the above three mentioned.
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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:52 pm

I'm afraid my knowledge is minimal at best, so I will be watching this discussion with interest. From what little I know, most religions are basically the same. One God and many names and different interpretaions.

I think I just believe what I feel in my heart to be true. So far, churches have not been helpful, so I have essentially turned my back on organized religion and stick with my own feelings. There have been too many horrendous happenings with some churches and their Pastors, Preachers, Ministers, etc.

I am open to enlightenment.
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Zada Connaway
Mother's Journals: parts 1, 2 and 3 ISBN # 1-4241-6969-0

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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:10 pm

Zada,
I think you have the best handle on things. Listen to your inner voice.
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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:20 pm

Thank you Abe. I hope I did not come off as condemning all religions. For the most part they are good, and in the right hands can help parents teach their children the things they need in order to be 'good' people. Things like compassion, empathy, courtesy, right and wrong. And sermons can ease suffering, and promote peace within oneself.

My great grandmother was an atheist but never missed church. She said the sermons were good, old fashioned common sense!
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Zada Connaway
Mother's Journals: parts 1, 2 and 3 ISBN # 1-4241-6969-0

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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:23 pm

Zada,
you don't have to believe in religion to believe in God.
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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:58 pm

I think for me that the most stunning feature of religion is as you say Abe; they are all founded on similar values. This really rang home for me when I had several funerals to attend in a rather short time. One week I was at a Catholic funeral, which started with the exact same part of the bible as a Jewish funeral the next week. This got me thinking, seriously.
In my digging around, which has included the world's major religions and even a few minor ones, I found the same root over and over: the golden rule - that do unto others as you would have them do unto you, or harm no one, whatever you want to define it as.
That being set in my mind then, that really the root of religion is at the root of humanity and that no matter what else we ascribe to any of them they are basically resting on the same foundation, I have to conclude that the roots of war could not be religion, even though they get called that. The roots of war seem to be an expression of an egotistical quest for power.
And I'm looking forward to seeing what you all think...it's a fascinating conversation. Cool

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Pam Robertson

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Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 2062 Location : UK

Try to think of the converse. Without any organised religion in the world EVER, would there be no wars and no conflict? Relgions unite people but they also divide. Why is that?

Also, if religions are basically the same, why are there so many? Doesn't that suggest that religions are man-made and not devised by God? Humans all think basically the same and this is reflected in the similarity of religions. If God devised numerous religions, they would be different and devised for different purposes. God wouldn't devise the same religion over and over again; there would be no need to do that.

We adopt the beliefs that suit us. We are not chosen by God, we are not "the chosen people". We do the choosing.

As an example, it is often thought that men choose their brides but the brides have the final word. They say yes or no. So who is really doing the choosing?
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Shelagh Watkins
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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:41 pm

I think the question “why” would have been on the mind of man regardless of any so-called religious belief. How did we come to be here? What causes things to grow, etc., etc? I believe that there would be a natural belief in some unknown or higher power. One might have called it “The thing” or “It” or “God.”
Yes, Shelagh, I believe that religion is man made. It has been a method of control and used as a guide on how to live. I think the biggest factor is for man to have a belief in the hereafter. People want to know where they go when they die. Believing in a heaven or a paradise provides comfort.
What has always stuck with me concerning life, is that the body is made up of energy, and energy never dies. So when the body dies, the energy leaves it. Where does it go? I believe it goes back to the source from where it originally came.
The American Indian believes in the Sun God. The sun is a ball of energy and provides light and life. Who knows? Maybe they got it right.
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Subject: Re: History of Religion(s) Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:11 pm

Good points, Shelagh. I believe that religious beliefs started as one. Then as more people joined in, different ways of thinking came to be, thus dividing the religion into many different ones with slightly different slants on things. It is all basically open to anyone's interpretations.

Politics and a desire to have power have been used to torture religions into beliefs that fed agendas for the powers in power at the time.

One need only look back to the Catholic twisting of 'pagan rites' to fit their religion to see how that worked. Solstice celebrations became religious holidays.

As I said, I am not learned in religion, so my views may be biased, but that is my take on it.
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Zada Connaway
Mother's Journals: parts 1, 2 and 3 ISBN # 1-4241-6969-0

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Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 2062 Location : UK

My experience would back up Abe's point about men wanting to believe in an afterlife. My brother died in 2002 after a long fight against cancer which he lost. Towards the end, after many years of not attending church or having any religious convictions, he was drawn back to the church and wanted to be buried at the church he attended as a boy.

He was leaving the love of his life, his eight year old son and he need, absolutely needed, to believe that it wasn't the end and that their relationship would not be finite but infinite. Only the church could offer that never-ending continuity.

My elder brother, George, is an atheist and, for many years, wouldn't step inside a church because it compromised his principles. Since my brother died, George visits my brother's grave and has offered to help to keep the church grounds tidy. Death changes people and their perception of religion. My brother is still an atheist but he likes the physical presence of a grave that he probably couldn't explain to even himself. It's a feeling and nothing thought out and rational. His rational mind tells him that there is no God. His feelings, however, sometimes get the better of him.

People believe what they want to believe and I'm a great believer in allowing anyone to choose their own beliefs, whether it's the supernatural, religion or a spiritual belief. I also think that people should be able to choose for themselves and should not be pressured into adopting someone else's beliefs.

Like Pam said, do unto others as you would them do unto you. In other words, never interfere in anyone else's life for any reason. Don't spy on, eavesdrop upon, lie about, follow, mimic, abuse, belittle or ridicule them. Show people the respect you would like to receive yourself and, most importantly, live and let live: vive et vivas.
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