Protocol

Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:23 pm

Don,
you posted at the same time as I did and I missed your comments. Having read them, I'm in complete agreement. I guess we old folks just think differently.
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Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:06 pm

They abolished the cane in UK high schools shortly after I left, back in 1985. I think that has had a big part to play in the rise in juvenile delinquency and disrespectfulness ever since. I did misbehave in school... once...during a rugby match out in the snow, when I refused to get involved. My PE teacher made me do a cross country run across the field and then afterwards reported me to the Head of Year. I got caned and had swollen palms for a week after that...

Parents are not allowed to smack their children anymore. Full stop. I don't agree with that philosophy. A child is only going to misbehave even more and more, but a couple of slaps given at the right time will make him/her think twice about further disobedience...and instill good manners that flourish into adult hood.
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Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 2021 Location : UK

I don't have a problem with the occasional slap and I accept that children prefer a quick punishment rather than a protracted one that curtails their freedom. That said, I don't believe in hitting children because there are too many cases of abused children in the UK. Allowing parents to slap their children means that some children suffer terrible beatings. I also accept that child abusers are in the minority so why should the majority suffer? Well, if you could save a single child's life no matter how much it inconvenienced you, you would do, wouldn't you?
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Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:00 pm

My husband and his grade school friends have shared horror stories of the treatment of children by the nuns at their Catholic school: slaps with rulers and the worst was when a nun tied a girl's braids together and hung her by her braids from coat hooks.

The students in my grade school were not hit, but it was a very orderly and respectful school. I don't believe my children were ever hit in school, but I know one spent a great deal of time in detention and the office, with many visits to school by his parents, especially in the beginning of the school year. He is a very successful adult, but I understand from the band teacher his son has some similar character traits to his father.

I taught in a school where the children were beaten with a belt. The office was near my classroom and we could hear the punishment when it was carried out. My room would get very quiet during those times. I think my students knew I'd probably never send a student to the office, but hearing the punishment was enough to keep them in line.

Carol

Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:26 pm

I am in total agreement with Don.
Akron, which has a dress code for kids in many of its schools, has instituted a dress code for teachers this year. No T-shirts, no jeans. Many teachers are crying the blues. No wonder things are such a mess today.

Did I tell the story of Mr. Loucks, our high school football coach and my algebra teacher? He was a genuinely tough character from the hardscrabble Ohio Valley steel towns. He went to tiny Washington & Jefferson College and was a starter on the W&J team that went to the Rose Bowl, an unheard of happening.
One day a boy mouthed off in class. Mr. Loucks opened the classroom door, came back and stood in front of the boy's row of seats, lowered his head, bellowed like a bull and charged. Holding the boy - a big kid - by the front of his shirt, Mr. Loucks hurled him out the door. We could hear the crash as he hit the metal lockers on the opposite wall, then crash after crash all the way to the principal's office.
Mr. Loucks came back, stood in front of the class rubbing his hands together and said, "Anyone else got something to say?"
It was a wonderful lesson for all. The boy, who had been a troublemaker from his first day in school, was a model student in every class from that day forward.
Mr. Loucks was a hard but fair man. One day he told me to remain after class. He said, "You don't know a thing about algebra, do you?"
I admitted he was right.
"You're going to fail, but if you come in half an hour early every day and work problems on the blackboard, you'll get a passing grade."
I did so, and passed. A knee injury had already knocked me off the freshman football team so he wasn't favoring one of his potential star players.
Throughout life I have carried the lesson taught by Mr. Loucks with me and I have often wished I could have thanked him for it. Kids not only need discipline, they crave it. They need to know where the line is drawn. They need to learn and show respect.
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Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:36 pm

Wow.
I didn't think my discussion on protocol would turn into child abuse.
Having said that, let me just say that if I were to compare the physical punishments inflicted on me with today's standards, my parents would be behind bars. It is difficult for today's generation to understand the standards of my generation.
On the lighter side, that would include our taste in music.

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Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:40 pm

One more thought. On my second or third day in the Army in 1943 we were gathered together in an auditorium. A steely-eyed office came out on the stage and looked us over row by row until he had met every man's eyes. Then he said:
"The first thing you need to know about the Army is we can't make you do a thing."
This was shocking news so a chorus of whispers were exchanged. When things quieted down, the officer again met everyone's eyes before saying:
"That's right. We can't make you do a thing, but we sure as hell can make you wish you had."
Another great lesson in life.
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Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:44 pm

Hmmm. . . Am I to imply there were/are different standards and strategies for disciplining females than males/females?

Carol

Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 8:07 pm

In the public schools of the 1950's south, I don't remember a single
girl being paddled or having any form of corporal punishment. But the
boys were a different story...
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Three Star Member Joined : 07 Jun 2008 Posts : 171

In the later 1940s, when I was in junior high, the principal, Mister Walter C. Jetton--whom we called "pussyfoot" because he could sneak up on you so quietly--used his very thin leather belt for "spankings." The other administer of corporal punishment was math-science teacher/coach Mr. Howard Moss who had a wooden paddle, and infractions, as he judged them, required a determined number of "cuts" with the board. But such punishment was dealt only to boys because girls, and females in general, were not "equal" at the time.

Jim Woods
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Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 2021 Location : UK

Funny you should say that Jim. Women and black people have not been equal for a long time and you know what, you can't help but notice that black people have black skin and women, well, you can't help but notice that they look like women. I guess it's just something we'll have to live with.
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Three Star Member Joined : 07 Jun 2008 Posts : 171

Is that a racist/sexist remark?

Jim Woods
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Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 2021 Location : UK

You bet!

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Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:03 pm

From the time I started first grade until I quit after 10th grade there wasn't a single case I knew of in which a girl misbehaved in class, not even in the tough industrial area on Akron's east side. The boys, that was a far different story. So was the behavior of some of the girls after school let out for the day. That not only was a different story but one best left untold.

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Subject: Re: Protocol Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:10 pm

I believe I have told y'all about my dad's old country store and the
old black men who sat around the pot-bellied stove and told
stories. My favorite among them was "Uncle George". He was as close to
Joel Chandler Harris's "Uncle Remus" as one could get.

Contrary to popular belief, to call the older black fokes "Aunt" and
"Uncle" was a title of respect - at least in my part of the south.
Uncle George called me "Mistah L'il Phil". and I felt uncomfortable
about that. If I had called him Mister George, he would have taken it
as cynicism. It was a strange time to live in - those
pre-racial-equality days.

I loved that old man.
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My website:http://www.philwhitley.com
"Let us dare to read, think, speak and write." ~ John Adams, 1765