Confessions of a semi-successful author

Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Sat May 24, 2008 4:21 pm

The obvious conclusion, to me: the more work you put into a book the less money you make.

I LOVE it!
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Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 1624 Location : UK

Hard work does not guarantee success, but not working hard guarantees failure.
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Shelagh Watkins
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Three Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 183

My disagreement is with those who say that because some of us chose to use a different route means that we do not work hard, we don't want to be successful, and we don't care about making any money off our books. I'm just not sure how these folks have come to that conclusion.

I've worked hard at learning to write for a lot of years. Some of it shows, some of it doesn't, but the fact remains. I write a lot, perhaps more than the majority here, and I rewrite, edit, polish, and try to make my work the best it can be. I seek the opinions of others, and try to learn from them, but I don't intend to sit at my desk reading rejection slips from agents and publishers while I go through the 200th rewrite of one of my stories. I don't intend to allow my books or stories to sit idle for the next ten years while I sit around being patient. I realize that I may never find an agent or sign that big publishing deal, and to me time spent pursuing that avenue is pretty much time wasted. I don't see rejections as anything other than rejections. I think the only thing you learn from multiple rejections of the same piece is that nobody wants what you've written. I think I'll pass. I've said over and over that there is more than one way to get published, and I'm all for people using whatever way they choose. It's not for me to judge how talented they are, how hard they have worked, or how much I think they want it. To each his own makes more sense than most old sayings.

Three Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 183

"Hard work does not guarantee success, but not working hard guarantees failure."

This is true, but not exactly accurate. There are a lot of books on the market that are there because of the celebrity of the person who claims authorship, usually with a ghost writer. They may have worked hard to become the celebrity, but many of them just kind of stumbled into it, and most of them have not worked hard at all at being authors.

I've said for many years that I prefer working smart over working hard, and I see no reason to change my mind now.

Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Sat May 24, 2008 7:04 pm

We all have to make our own decisions. I made the decision four years ago to bring a book out via iUniverse. It was a calculated risk, my hope being that I would sell enough copies to catch the attention of a mainstream publisher or agent. I wrote the book in 1983 and felt that by 2004, it was better to bring it out as a POD book than keep sending it out.

While I would not change this decision, I am not altogether happy with it or with the kind of publishing environment that led me to take that route

I do think that with every book-length manuscript we write, it's not going to unduly delay anyone no matter what their age to give mainstream agents/publishers a shot for 6-12 months before going POD.

To state the politically incorrect, most of those churning out manuscripts aren't good enough to become beloved authors. The mainstream publishers who turned down my novel may be correct. The democratic nature of the Internet, blogs, websites, and POD houses does not in and of itself transform writers who should never be published by anyone into artists, leaving most with a life of pretense that their work is just as viable as Rowling or Koontz or Grisham and that the only reason it hasn't been published is due to the unfairness of the system. To think otherwise is tantamount to saying that every kid who plays sand-lot baseball is really capable of playing in the major leagues if somebody would just give them a chance. Most of the stuff that dies in the slush pile belongs there.

I think it's unrealistic and unfair to tell everyone who says they're working on a novel that that novel is somehow an automatic gem that deserves publication. What's to be gained in doing that?

At some point, each of us must decide whether we have it in us to learn to write well enough to create salable manuscripts that really are worthy of publication. At some point, we need a reality check. Like everyone else here, I'm going to keep learning and trying whether I end up choosing POD again or whether an agent finally calls up. Meanwhile, I've made my living as a writer in many different areas. One day I hope published books are one of the areas bringing in some of that money.

Malcolm
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Malcolm R. Campbell

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Three Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 183

Malcom, I think overall you are making some sense, but there are a couple of things that I think need a bit of clarification. 6 – 12 months isn’t an unreasonable amount of time for anyone to work on getting a manuscript published. I daresay that 2 to 3 years may be acceptable as well. However, 6 – 12 years or longer is simply not acceptable, at least not to many of us, unless one it truly living in a world of make believe. The odds of getting your manuscript accepted after it has been turned down 15 or 20 times in the past few years are pretty low. If you have submitted it 25 or 30 times and nobody is willing to take a chance on it, I think you should reevaluate its worth. The chances are that its just not good enough, and probably never will be. At that point in time you should either publish it however you can or scrap it.

The other point I disagree with is this one.

You say; “At some point, each of us must decide whether we have it in us to learn to write well enough to create salable manuscripts that really are worthy of publication. At some point, we need a reality check.”

My opinion is that regardless of how much we learn, or regardless of how salable we believe our manuscripts to be, most of them are not going to accepted by a major publisher, and we are not going to interest an agent in taking us on as clients. I honestly believe that there are literally thousands, perhaps millions of salable manuscripts out there that will never be published by the mainstream companies. I think that an author who self publishes one of these, or who uses one of the free companies is doing the right thing, and the handful of readers the book finds are better off because of it.

I also think there are countless of manuscripts out there that are just plain terrible, and should never be published, but who am I, or who are you, to tell the authors not to publish them is they want to? In the world of self-publishing such as we are talking about, which is becoming wider and wider every day, good and bad have little to do with it. It is the desire of a person who has written something to see it in print, and I think they have every right to do so. I know that none or at least very few of these books will ever amount to anything, but I still say it is their right to publish if they want to. If they want to think they have written the next great American novel, let them think it. I do wish they’d stop blaming the publisher when their flop turns out to be a flop, but they never will.

It’s a bit world, and there’s room for all of us.

BTW, I’m glad you make your living writing, but what we’ve been talking about is making a living writing fiction, and not writing for hire. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, but it just isn’t the same thing.

Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Sun May 25, 2008 1:37 am

Good points, Don. We'll probably disagree about some of the finer points that, when it comes down to it, are more philosophical that practical.

You're right, we're not going to tell others not to self-publish their books. I only ask here what makes writing different than other careers where one presumes that those who have been in them might have some worthwhile advice to offer. If an accomplished surgeon watches the first attempts of an intern and thinks the intern doesn't have a clue or a chance, shouldn't the surgeon say something? We might say the same about amost any profession.

I am usually negative about POD because I see a lot of book promoters giving people the impression that if they (new authors) will spend X amount of money on various schemes, they have a good chance of breaking into the big time. Other than a few examples, mostly where a famous author has seen a POD book, breaking into the mainstream in fiction by going on a blog tour probably isn't going to happen. We all dream that it might, and as long as we do, I hope we'll keep putting one word after another.

I've worked for hire and I've worked as a consultant or freelancer. I like it. I'd like it better, thought, with a few royalty checks. Smile

Malcolm
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Malcolm R. Campbell

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Admin Joined : 11 Jan 2008 Posts : 1624 Location : UK

You know, Malcolm, you could probably do it. Although, if you waited twelve years and stuck to a manuscript that wasn't going to be accepted, you are probably like me and enjoy writing but you are not prepared to do what it takes to please an agent.

All the information on the 'net suggests polish, rewrite, polish, resubmit until the manuscript shines like a diamond. I don't think this works. What does is finding out exactly what appeals to certain agents and writing something they will love reading as much as you enjoyed writing.

Unfortunately, most of us get more enjoyment out of writing than reading and falsely assume that readers will enjoy reading our novels as much as we enjoyed writing them.

Agents dismiss words like formulaic but the fact is that they know exactly what they are looking for and recognise it before they reach the bottom of the page. Most work submitted fails within a paragraph or two.

If you continue to write what you want to write, the chances of finding an agent are less than slim. If you are determined and willing to write to suit the market, not yourself, there's every chance you will succeed.
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Shelagh Watkins
http://shelaghwatkins.co.uk/

Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Sun May 25, 2008 5:56 pm

Shelagh,
you said, "If you continue to write what you want to
write, the chances of finding an agent are less than slim. If you are
determined and willing to write to suit the market, not yourself,
there's every chance you will succeed."

That is excellent advice. Within the past 6 months, a writer friend had asked my help with his/her manuscript. It was a true story with great market potential. It progressed and a major publisher was interested, but said, "You are telling a story like a reporter. You need to rewrite." The author said, "That's the way I write. If I do it any other way, then it's not me. I will not bend my principles. It would be a lie to do so."
scratch

I'm still shaking my head.
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Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Mon May 26, 2008 1:23 am

Shelagh,

You're right, I could care less what agent XYZ likes because s'he isn't my audience. I wouldk more spend 10 years working to please one agent that I would spend it picking up sand on the beach with tweezers.

I've always written on my own terms, come what may.

My question is, as always, how does literary fiction that's unique wind up getting published? That's about all I read. Did Susanna Clarke, for example, aim Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell at a specific agent? If not, I wonder how she got it published for it's certainly "farther out there" than what I'm writing. Same could be said for Marisha Pessl or Zafon and Shadow of the Wind. None of these books are commercial. When it comes down to it, neither are MARCH and PEOPLE OF THE BOOK or THE TIME TRAVELER'S WIFE. How did any of Sunetra Gupta's books make it? Somehow, some of this "different kind of work" is getting through and becoming published. So there's hope.

Malcolm
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Malcolm R. Campbell

http://www.malcolmrcampbell.com

Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Mon May 26, 2008 1:40 am

I suppose in a perfect world what I like to write would just happen to be exactly what a major publishing house editor is looking for ... and what millions of young adults are hungry to read.

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Three Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 183

Malcom, maybe what Shelagh is saying is that the agent you're trying to attract should be your audience, because unless you give him or her something he or she likes, the chances are very slim that they will sign you.

As to how some books make it to the market, that's something most of us will never understand. I know I won't, just as I never understood how some "hit" songs ever got recorded.

Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Mon May 26, 2008 1:50 am

Subject: Re: Confessions of a semi-successful author Mon May 26, 2008 1:53 am

What if William Shakespeare had to go through the editors we deal with today?

"Uhhh, Bill, you have a potentially great story here, and I really like
the catchy ending - but you've GOT to do something about all those
thees, thous, harks and forsooths. An alas now and again is okay, but
try to keep them to a minimum."
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Three Star Member Joined : 17 Jan 2008 Posts : 183

Elf, both songs you named qualify, as does all of the ridiculous noise called "Heavy Metal" "Hip Hop" and "Rap," and anything by Shania Twain.